26  Dharmakaya Has No Phenomena

This is chapter twenty-six—Dharmakaya Has No Phenomena. What does it mean? A dharmakaya—dharma body—is pure and without any phenomena; it has no form, appearance, or any other phenomena. That is the title. Now onto the text:

“Subhuti, what do you think? Can one perceive the Tathagata through the thirty-two marks of perfection?”

Does this mean that anyone with thirty-two marks of perfection is a tathagata?

Subhuti replied, “Yes, World-Honored One! One can perceive the Tathagata through the thirty-two marks of perfection.”

Subhuti did not reply directly, but he suggested that the Tathagata seems to be endowed with thirty-two marks of perfection. It is correct that the Tathagata has thirty-two marks of perfection. However, the Buddha continued,

“If a tathagata is perceived through the thirty-two marks of perfection, then a cakravartin would be a tathagata.”

In other words, if anyone with thirty-two marks of perfection is a tathagata, then a cakravartin—a supreme ruler who turns the wheel—would be a tathagata too.

Everyone knows about the thirty-two marks of perfection. When Sakyamuni Buddha appears with form, he is endowed with thirty-two marks of perfection and eighty secondary marks of proper conduct. But does having thirty-two marks of perfection make one a tathagata? Subhuti did not dare to answer, so the Buddha continued,

“If a tathagata is perceived through the thirty-two marks of perfection, then a cakravartin would be a tathagata.”

What is a cakravartin? Buddhists have debated over who and what constitutes a cakravartin, and there have been varying opinions. Use your phones to check the internet; I want to see how “cakravartin” is defined in the Buddhist Encyclopedia. [Master Lian Chuan speaks.] Okay. [Ambassador Liao speaks.] Thank you.

The Buddhist Encyclopedia defines it as a king in the human world. In India, people consider a cakravartin to be a worldly king. The question is, are there any cakravartins in today’s world? No one fits the criteria as defined in the Buddhist Encyclopedia. Nobody has the signs of a flywheel or the seven treasures,¹According to the Buddhist Encyclopedia, a cakravartin possesses seven treasures: a wheel, elephants, horses, jewels, jewel-like women, ministers of financial affairs, and generals. all of which are intangible.

Let’s consider the kings of the modern world. Which country is presently most influential? U.S. President Joe Biden is said to have a great deal of influence. But does he have thirty-two marks of perfection? Not even one! Is there a country leader endowed with the thirty-two marks of perfection? Or even just one of those marks? How can there be any cakravartins in today’s world?

Just now, Master Lian Chuan and Ambassador Liao basically said the same thing. Since we cannot find a cakravartin in this saha world, what exactly is a cakravartin? India’s King Asoka was very famous for turning the wheel of Buddhism during the Mauryan Empire. Do you know what he looked like? Did he have thirty-two marks of perfection? Many people argue over what defines a cakravartin.

In my opinion, the so-called cakravartin the Buddha speaks of is intangible. How can there be a human being whose ears are so long that the lobes touch the shoulders? That is one of the thirty-two marks of perfection. Of course, if you tilt your head toward your shoulder, your ear can touch the shoulder. [laughs] My ears are considered quite long—and this is as long as they get after pulling on them for ages. When I was little, my ears were as small as those of a mouse, so people nicknamed me “Mousy.” Now my ears are much bigger and longer, yet they still don’t hang down to touch my shoulders.

One of the thirty-two marks of perfection is a tongue so long and wide that it can cover one’s whole face. Is that even possible? Where can you find such a tongue? The Amitabha Sutra states that this long and wide tongue can cover not only the whole face but also the three-thousand-great-thousand-world. It’s the mark of speaking truthfully. Can you find a person with such a mark?

Another mark of perfection is arms that hang below the knees when standing upright. Do any of you here have this mark? If you do, then you can have my bag. Does such a person exist? Even I don’t have this mark. That’s why I believe the cakravartin mentioned by the Buddha is intangible.

Are you familiar with the Yamas of the Ten Halls (Ten Kings of Hells)? The king of the first hall is called King Qinguang. The king of the fifth hall is King Yama. The king of the tenth hall is King Zhuanlun, meaning the king who turns the wheel. Do they have thirty-two marks of perfection? Have you seen the Kings of Hells? There are ten of them in the ten halls of hell, collectively addressed as the Yama Kings, named after the king of the fifth hall. The king of the tenth hall is referred to as the King Who Turns the Wheel—a term very similar to cakravartin—the Supreme King Who Turns the Wheel. Nobody has ever seen a cakravartin. If someone has gone to hell and met the Yama King of the tenth hall, they usually never return alive. Even if they do come back to life, they don’t talk about the appearances of the Yama Kings. So, the appearances of the Yama Kings is based on imagination. In my personal opinion the thirty-two marks of perfection and the eighty secondary marks are about the intangible. Cakravartins, too, are intangible.

According to the Daoist Encyclopedia, there are the Three Great Emperor Officials. The Heavenly Official of Higher Origin and First-in-Rank Who Bestows Blessings turns the wheel in heaven. The Earthly Official of Middle Origin and Second-in-Rank Who Absolves Sins turns the wheel in the saha world. The Water Official of Lower Origin and Third-in-Rank Who Eliminates Misfortunes turns the wheel in the water realm. The Heavenly Official, the Earthly Official, and the Water Official oversee the heavens, earth, and water, respectively.

In China, the [manifestations of] Three Great Emperor Officials are Yao, Shun, and Yu the Great. Yao is the Heavenly Official, Shun is the Earthly Official, and Yu the Great is the Water Official, controller of floods. No one has ever seen them. Have you? No. How about the Three Great Emperor Officials? No. And the Ten Yama Kings? No. They are all intangible.

Let us take our protector deities as an example. Most Taiwanese ancestors immigrated from Fujian Province in China, as did the deities they worship. The protector of Quanzhou is Guang Ze Zun Wang, while the protector of Zhangzhou is Kai Zhang Sheng Wang. San Shan Guo Wang [Lords of the Three Mountains] protects the Hakka. We don’t know what they look like because they are intangible. Instead, what we see are their statues, made to resemble the buddhas, endowed with thirty-two marks of perfection.

We have a deity called Mazu on the altar here—a water goddess. What does she look like? She has very long earlobes. The statue of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva is complete with thirty-two marks of perfection, as is Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva, the savior of the netherworld. Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva turns the dharma wheel of compassion, Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva turns the dharma wheel of the hells and the Earth, and the Jade Emperor in Trayastrimsa Heaven turns the dharma wheel of the heavens. Their images all possess thirty-two marks of perfection.

In Buddhism, many beings who turn the dharma wheel of the heavens, hells, water, compassion, or wisdom appear in forms with thirty-two marks of perfection and eighty secondary marks of proper conduct. However, they are not necessarily buddhas. Conversely, buddhas are certainly endowed with thirty-two marks of perfection and eighty secondary marks of perfect conduct.

Pay attention to this passage about the cakravartin. Since finding such a supreme ruler in the saha world is impossible, there has been an ongoing debate about it. I believe the cakravartin described by the Buddha exists only in the intangible realm.

Subhuti said to the Buddha, “World-Honored One, I understand. One should never perceive a tathagata through the thirty-two marks of perfection.”

That is right! Only then did Subhuti understand that one should not perceive a tathagata through the thirty-two marks of perfection because a tathagata has no marks, forms, or phenomena. The thirty-two marks of perfection are already intangible, let alone the pure dharmakaya. Pure dharmakaya, of course, has no phenomena.

The World-Honored One then spoke this verse:

“Anyone who sees me as form
or seeks me in sound
is on the wrong path
and cannot perceive the Tathagata.”

How do we explain this verse? Form is something like the thirty-two marks of perfection. If you think the Tathagata is represented by form or voice, you are walking down the wrong path, and you will not be able to see the Tathagata.

Let me say this: One does not encounter a tathagata by searching for form, voice, or any phenomena. Trying to see a tathagata through any kind of phenomena is futile. The thirty-two marks of perfection and the eighty secondary marks of proper conduct do not necessarily represent a tathagata.

Likewise, pure dharmakaya cannot be perceived through form or voice. Why? Because pure mind—pure buddhanature—pure dharmakaya—lacks any phenomena whatsoever. Pure dharmakaya cannot be sought or determined by any phenomena. If you think that [a certain] voice or appearance represents a tathagata, then you are on the wrong path and cannot encounter the tathagata.

Buddhanature is not something you seek; it manifests naturally once you are purified. If you seek it by voice, form, or any phenomena, you are walking the wrong path and cannot see the tathagata in dharmakaya—the pure dharma body. As such, you cannot transform into a pure dharmakaya either. Now do you understand?

Early on, when I first read the Vajra Sutra, I could not understand this. I thought something was not quite right; if we cannot seek the buddha by voice, why do we use our voices to chant “Namo Amitabha”? Is it wrong to chant “Namo Amitabha”? No, it’s not wrong. We often chant it, and I chant “Namo Amitabha” every day. We often greet each other by saying “Namo Amitabha.” Is that not using our voice? Why is it written that someone seeking the buddha by voice is on the wrong path? I used to be skeptical of this phrase and thought to myself, “Am I on the wrong path when I recite a buddha’s name or pray to the buddhas?” I thought this [phrase] could not be right. So, what is the right thing to do if using voice is the wrong path? Eventually, I realized that my understanding was flawed.

Why does the Vajra Sutra state that seeking the buddha by voice is the wrong path, despite our constant chanting? Does it mean we are on the wrong path if we chant the buddha’s name every day? No, it does not.

We purify our speech when we chant a buddha’s name or mantra, whether loudly or silently. By chanting aloud, we imprint it in our brain. We don’t curse, gossip, or lie while chanting the buddha’s name. This is purifying our speech. The dharma of purification is to purify our speech, mind, and body. Once purified, you will attain a pure dharma body. Pure dharma body is attained by purifying your body, speech, and mind, and not by seeking it in sound. When you reach purity levels twelve, thirteen, or sixteen, you become a tathagata. This is what it means. This is how I explain Dharmakaya Has No Phenomena.

The Buddha says that pure mind and pure dharmakaya have no phenomena and cannot be sought after. You cannot seek a pure dharma body. It cannot be obtained through spiritual cultivation either. Dharmakaya naturally manifests once you are completely purified. Now do you understand?

This is the reason why I believe that a cakravartin is also intangible. Ksitigarbha, Avalokitesvara, Manjusri, and many bodhisattvas appear magnificent, with thirty-two marks of perfection. But bodhisattvas are not necessarily buddhas. The Jade Emperor, the Three Great Emperor Officials, and the Yamas of the Ten Halls bear these marks as well, but they are neither buddhas nor bodhisattvas. Although buddhas and bodhisattvas possess the thirty-two marks of perfection, not everyone with these marks is necessarily a buddha or a bodhisattva. That is my explanation.

Some people are beautiful, while some are ugly. You cannot say that a beautiful woman is a good person and an ugly one is evil, right? Whether one is beautiful, handsome, or ugly depends on their causes and conditions from past lives. It is rather intriguing that some people with horrendous appearances possess a kind heart.

Appearance—which is also part of phenomena—is not necessarily what it appears to be. Nevertheless, we believe that the look on your face reflects your heart. In other words, you are responsible for your own face and looks. Even as people age and increasingly show signs of age with wrinkles, age marks, and all those unwanted things, we say spiritual cultivation makes people look kinder and more compassionate, regardless of gender.

Your face reveals whether you have practiced well in your spiritual cultivation. If you appear more and more hostile, something is wrong. What is there to be so vicious about? Even the hunchback doesn’t look so ferocious. Let’s be kind and amiable. Be polite and friendly. Say “Welcome” when visitors come and “Thank you, goodbye!” when they leave. Don’t be rude; hostility will eventually etch itself onto your face. Is this one of the peculiarities of our Seattle Temple and the Rainbow Temple? Let me tell you, those who show unkind behaviors have not been cultivating spiritually.

Om mani padme hum.